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	<title>Comments on: No, You Don&#8217;t Need Pills</title>
	<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/</link>
	<description>Feral fashions for the finicky female</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Riggs</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-771</link>
		<dc:creator>Riggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-771</guid>
		<description>I've arrived late to this dialogue, but I'd like to comment on Taoist "Healing Love" techniques as taught by Mantak Chia, etc, (in books such as "The Multi-Orgasmic Man" and "Taoist Secrets of Love") which others have mentioned, and which I have over 10 years' experience with. At different points, I saw or heard warnings (both from teachers of this system and others) of these practices' potential dangers, and I mostly heeded them. At times, especially early on, I had incredible experiences with these techniques (and later on, with the rest of the Healing Tao practices). I definitely believe that the possibility for such a sexuality (for both men and women) does exist, along with the rest of the possibilities that people like Mantak Chia and Michael Winn allude to (immortality, etc.). 

Nevertheless, in the long term, these practices stopped working for me, and actually harmed my sexuality (I didn't bust a blood vessel or anything, although such a thing has happened to people - even more obsessed than me, perhaps - practicing some other more advanced techniques). The proper warnings do not appear often enough nor at every point where they should, and worse, the system does not have all of the elements in it that would allow long-term sustainability of itself or true achievement of the goals it purports to allow you to achieve. I would heartily discourage men from attemting to engage in long-term "semen retention," as the techniques mentioned DO NOT (contrary to claims) actually cause "sublimation of the sexual energy" or other such descriptions.

In other words, although this Healing Tao system contains some value, in my opinion, I consider it a partial, cobbled-together, bastardized, commercialized, culturally-appropriated version of Taoism. Guys, you need to cum, and you will, eventually, whether you want to or not. Maybe you will get into a state someday, somehow, where that statement no longer applies, but to grasp after such a state or try to create it prematurely will only lead you astray and potentially hurt you.

For what I'm into now along these lines, and what I consider a more healthy, whole, and authentic path, if you're curious, check out http://www.traditionaltao.com .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve arrived late to this dialogue, but I&#8217;d like to comment on Taoist &#8220;Healing Love&#8221; techniques as taught by Mantak Chia, etc, (in books such as &#8220;The Multi-Orgasmic Man&#8221; and &#8220;Taoist Secrets of Love&#8221;) which others have mentioned, and which I have over 10 years&#8217; experience with. At different points, I saw or heard warnings (both from teachers of this system and others) of these practices&#8217; potential dangers, and I mostly heeded them. At times, especially early on, I had incredible experiences with these techniques (and later on, with the rest of the Healing Tao practices). I definitely believe that the possibility for such a sexuality (for both men and women) does exist, along with the rest of the possibilities that people like Mantak Chia and Michael Winn allude to (immortality, etc.). </p>
<p>Nevertheless, in the long term, these practices stopped working for me, and actually harmed my sexuality (I didn&#8217;t bust a blood vessel or anything, although such a thing has happened to people - even more obsessed than me, perhaps - practicing some other more advanced techniques). The proper warnings do not appear often enough nor at every point where they should, and worse, the system does not have all of the elements in it that would allow long-term sustainability of itself or true achievement of the goals it purports to allow you to achieve. I would heartily discourage men from attemting to engage in long-term &#8220;semen retention,&#8221; as the techniques mentioned DO NOT (contrary to claims) actually cause &#8220;sublimation of the sexual energy&#8221; or other such descriptions.</p>
<p>In other words, although this Healing Tao system contains some value, in my opinion, I consider it a partial, cobbled-together, bastardized, commercialized, culturally-appropriated version of Taoism. Guys, you need to cum, and you will, eventually, whether you want to or not. Maybe you will get into a state someday, somehow, where that statement no longer applies, but to grasp after such a state or try to create it prematurely will only lead you astray and potentially hurt you.</p>
<p>For what I&#8217;m into now along these lines, and what I consider a more healthy, whole, and authentic path, if you&#8217;re curious, check out <a href="http://www.traditionaltao.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.traditionaltao.com</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: Singanothertime</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-591</link>
		<dc:creator>Singanothertime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 03:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-591</guid>
		<description>Thanks for what you've mentioned, Heathen.

Through all the talk here, I've become disturbed (again) by the lack of consideration among many for individual happiness.   Some of us don't want an expectation of pregnancy, nor segregation and conflict and pain or any of it all.

I've become very tired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for what you&#8217;ve mentioned, Heathen.</p>
<p>Through all the talk here, I&#8217;ve become disturbed (again) by the lack of consideration among many for individual happiness.   Some of us don&#8217;t want an expectation of pregnancy, nor segregation and conflict and pain or any of it all.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve become very tired.</p>
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		<title>By: Heathen</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>Heathen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-585</guid>
		<description>I hope no one took my above theory seriously. I was just exercising my right to think criminally. My reasons for abandoning the theory are varied.  There would be problems with proving fraternity, childhood epidemics wiping out population. and attacks by neighboring tribes overtaking.

Plus it perpetuates the nuclear family format which I don't like.
 
I think the concept of free choice is related to the socio-biological fact that our species is neither completely monogamous nor polyamorus. Think of every one of the tem commandments and how it might be different they would be if women were allowed to be promiscuous and property was shared. Our current society only formally acknowledges monogamous heterosexual relationships. I think people are made differently in who they are attracted to as well as how many people they can sustain relationships with.  I know that part is random but I am usually pretty random. Thus the fact that I am talking about hypothetical rites when everyone else is looking for a modern alternative birth control.

I have heard that the pill is actually good in the fact that using it for a year can lower the chance of breast cancer.  If you and your partner aren’t interested in Taoist healing love practices which claim to lessen periods by recycling the life giving yen chi into creative energy that can be used to heal or develop spiritually. In males the practice encourages males to withhold semen to use the energy in a similar way. Which is a lot more work than monitoring a cycle but carries amazing benefits. I know it sounds like new age mumbo-jumbo but imagine how well martial artists can fight and apply it to sex.

Reducing caloric intake (especially animal fats) and having vitamin deficiencies can stop menstruation at the cost of your health. Though some people think reducing calories really do live a lot longer than people who eat a lot and exert themselves to burn extra calories. I don’t know what I think about that.

Though  the easiest method I have heard of  is for men to wear tighty-whities to lower sperm count also I think soaking the testicles in hot water could probably have the same result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope no one took my above theory seriously. I was just exercising my right to think criminally. My reasons for abandoning the theory are varied.  There would be problems with proving fraternity, childhood epidemics wiping out population. and attacks by neighboring tribes overtaking.</p>
<p>Plus it perpetuates the nuclear family format which I don&#8217;t like.</p>
<p>I think the concept of free choice is related to the socio-biological fact that our species is neither completely monogamous nor polyamorus. Think of every one of the tem commandments and how it might be different they would be if women were allowed to be promiscuous and property was shared. Our current society only formally acknowledges monogamous heterosexual relationships. I think people are made differently in who they are attracted to as well as how many people they can sustain relationships with.  I know that part is random but I am usually pretty random. Thus the fact that I am talking about hypothetical rites when everyone else is looking for a modern alternative birth control.</p>
<p>I have heard that the pill is actually good in the fact that using it for a year can lower the chance of breast cancer.  If you and your partner aren’t interested in Taoist healing love practices which claim to lessen periods by recycling the life giving yen chi into creative energy that can be used to heal or develop spiritually. In males the practice encourages males to withhold semen to use the energy in a similar way. Which is a lot more work than monitoring a cycle but carries amazing benefits. I know it sounds like new age mumbo-jumbo but imagine how well martial artists can fight and apply it to sex.</p>
<p>Reducing caloric intake (especially animal fats) and having vitamin deficiencies can stop menstruation at the cost of your health. Though some people think reducing calories really do live a lot longer than people who eat a lot and exert themselves to burn extra calories. I don’t know what I think about that.</p>
<p>Though  the easiest method I have heard of  is for men to wear tighty-whities to lower sperm count also I think soaking the testicles in hot water could probably have the same result.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-584</guid>
		<description>That doesn't make any sense.  It doesn't limit population explosions.  If it did, the human population wouldn't exceed 6 billion.  Like all other animals, human population is determined by food supply.  Have you read the thirty theses on Anthropik?  If not you ought to, if so, you should re-read them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That doesn&#8217;t make any sense.  It doesn&#8217;t limit population explosions.  If it did, the human population wouldn&#8217;t exceed 6 billion.  Like all other animals, human population is determined by food supply.  Have you read the thirty theses on Anthropik?  If not you ought to, if so, you should re-read them.</p>
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		<title>By: void_genesis</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>void_genesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-583</guid>
		<description>I guess you could say the banker-peasant relationship is more like mosquito swarm-deer or tapeworm-deer, in many ways more caring and sharing than the throat tearing wolf, but ultimately with the same effect of limiting population explosions to some extent by  mopping up excess stock, especially by preying on the weak and stupid. I find it offensive too, and inconsistent with our short range capacity for empathy and altruism, but that doesn't stop it from being consistent with reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess you could say the banker-peasant relationship is more like mosquito swarm-deer or tapeworm-deer, in many ways more caring and sharing than the throat tearing wolf, but ultimately with the same effect of limiting population explosions to some extent by  mopping up excess stock, especially by preying on the weak and stupid. I find it offensive too, and inconsistent with our short range capacity for empathy and altruism, but that doesn&#8217;t stop it from being consistent with reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-579</guid>
		<description>Consciously limiting your personal fertility has no impact on population because, as you point out, if you don't do it someone else will.  The human population is behaving exactly like the yeast in the bottle. 

I'd like to point out that the relationship between wolves and deer has nothing in common with the relationship between human peasants and human investment bankers.  I find social Darwinism really offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consciously limiting your personal fertility has no impact on population because, as you point out, if you don&#8217;t do it someone else will.  The human population is behaving exactly like the yeast in the bottle. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to point out that the relationship between wolves and deer has nothing in common with the relationship between human peasants and human investment bankers.  I find social Darwinism really offensive.</p>
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		<title>By: void_genesis</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-576</link>
		<dc:creator>void_genesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-576</guid>
		<description>If conciously limiting your population and rate of reproduction is desirable and advantageous, then why isn't the world populated by people who are naturally less fertile? If having one child every five years gives the best success rate in having offspring who have their own offspring, then surely it would be the default setting no? Our distant ancestors mostly had yearly cycles, so why did our cycle change to monthly if all it causes are problems?

Likewise why isnt any species in nature behaving in this manner and holding back on reproduction, population and net consumption? Deer on an island or yeast in a bottle keep growing until disaster strikes. Except people never look beyond these simple analogies and wonder why despite this suicidal behaviour the world is still full of reckless creatures like deer and yeasts.

And of course the answer is that competition from within your species, and pressures from predators and parasites, normally provide the counter pressure. This means that not fulfilling your biological potential (to eat, breed, build condos etc) is a form of existential insincerity and falsehood. If you can do it and you choose not to then someone else will and you will be erased from history. If we cannot trust our own instincts then we cannot trust anything. And right now in history human instincts are telling us to consume the planet. And if we choose not to, then someone else will. The odds of coordinating six billion people to feel guilty in the same way at the same time are nigh on impossible.

Humans are odd because we keep winning arms races with other species that might have balanced us by changing our behaviour again and again. Fire, tools, agriculture, medicine, etc. Our only possible saving grace is our ability to turn on ourselves. The wolf is the doctor to the deer herd, just as the investment banker is the doctor to the african peasant. The deers life looks less pleasant than the wolfs (being eaten hurts), but without the wolf its life would be far worse (starving en masse hurts worse). The peasant's life looks less pleasant than the banker's, but can we really be sure that it would be better and not worse if the banker didn't exist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If conciously limiting your population and rate of reproduction is desirable and advantageous, then why isn&#8217;t the world populated by people who are naturally less fertile? If having one child every five years gives the best success rate in having offspring who have their own offspring, then surely it would be the default setting no? Our distant ancestors mostly had yearly cycles, so why did our cycle change to monthly if all it causes are problems?</p>
<p>Likewise why isnt any species in nature behaving in this manner and holding back on reproduction, population and net consumption? Deer on an island or yeast in a bottle keep growing until disaster strikes. Except people never look beyond these simple analogies and wonder why despite this suicidal behaviour the world is still full of reckless creatures like deer and yeasts.</p>
<p>And of course the answer is that competition from within your species, and pressures from predators and parasites, normally provide the counter pressure. This means that not fulfilling your biological potential (to eat, breed, build condos etc) is a form of existential insincerity and falsehood. If you can do it and you choose not to then someone else will and you will be erased from history. If we cannot trust our own instincts then we cannot trust anything. And right now in history human instincts are telling us to consume the planet. And if we choose not to, then someone else will. The odds of coordinating six billion people to feel guilty in the same way at the same time are nigh on impossible.</p>
<p>Humans are odd because we keep winning arms races with other species that might have balanced us by changing our behaviour again and again. Fire, tools, agriculture, medicine, etc. Our only possible saving grace is our ability to turn on ourselves. The wolf is the doctor to the deer herd, just as the investment banker is the doctor to the african peasant. The deers life looks less pleasant than the wolfs (being eaten hurts), but without the wolf its life would be far worse (starving en masse hurts worse). The peasant&#8217;s life looks less pleasant than the banker&#8217;s, but can we really be sure that it would be better and not worse if the banker didn&#8217;t exist?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Godesky</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Godesky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-570</guid>
		<description>Two years under what we consider "normal" breastfeeding conditions; as I said, they'll breastfeed for up to five years.  But diet and lifestyle also play their part, as mentioned previously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two years under what we consider &#8220;normal&#8221; breastfeeding conditions; as I said, they&#8217;ll breastfeed for up to five years.  But diet and lifestyle also play their part, as mentioned previously.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-564</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-564</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure that it does limit population growth, though.  If you use breastfeeding alone (which I'm sure hunter gatherers don't do) You'll have a baby about every two years.  That's a lot of babies!  Here's an artical about lactational amenorrhea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_amenorrhea_method

Perhaps HGs stay infertile longer due to their lifestyle, I don't know.  I think I remember reading that in some tribes sex is taboo for a nursing mother.  That would definitely keep the population down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that it does limit population growth, though.  If you use breastfeeding alone (which I&#8217;m sure hunter gatherers don&#8217;t do) You&#8217;ll have a baby about every two years.  That&#8217;s a lot of babies!  Here&#8217;s an artical about lactational amenorrhea: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_amenorrhea_method" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_amenorrhea_method</a></p>
<p>Perhaps HGs stay infertile longer due to their lifestyle, I don&#8217;t know.  I think I remember reading that in some tribes sex is taboo for a nursing mother.  That would definitely keep the population down.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Godesky</title>
		<link>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Godesky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fabulousforager.com/2008/03/no-you-dont-need-pills/#comment-560</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Breastfeeding, it’s not a guaranteed method of birth control.

No, and I didn't mean to suggest so.  Rather, Shane asked how hunter-gatherers control population, and when you spread it over an entire society, it will help keep a limit to population growth.  Of course, as nice as that may seem for society at large, when &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt; face the potential of an unwanted pregnancy, that hardly matters.  Two totally different scales of concern, with completely different considerations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Breastfeeding, it’s not a guaranteed method of birth control.</p>
<p>No, and I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest so.  Rather, Shane asked how hunter-gatherers control population, and when you spread it over an entire society, it will help keep a limit to population growth.  Of course, as nice as that may seem for society at large, when <em>you</em> face the potential of an unwanted pregnancy, that hardly matters.  Two totally different scales of concern, with completely different considerations.</p></blockquote>
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